Freehold Improvements: Spring's Take

Oh contraire.

Being the monarch ICly gives you absolute power. Being monarch OOCly puts you in a position of service to the players.

If the Monarch says 'everyone go into the hedge and form a skirmish line against the Horde of Gentry that are on the way'. Everyone jumps, this sucks for the non combat characters who are obviously gonna get squished but ICly we are oathed to do it.

OOCly, I think it's pretty fair for the parties in question to bring up concerns and obvious stupidity on the part of the leadership. Especially if it the decision obviously sucks for a large part of the playerbase.

There is a big difference between how the theme plays out and what is logical and works in gameplay, we've got to start seperating the two and the difficulty of doing that is apparent in this discussion.

Polly wrote:

Oh contraire.

Being the monarch ICly gives you absolute power. Being monarch OOCly puts you in a position of service to the players.

If the Monarch says 'everyone go into the hedge and form a skirmish line against the Horde of Gentry that are on the way'. Everyone jumps, this sucks for the non combat characters who are obviously gonna get squished but ICly we are oathed to do it.

OOCly, I think it's pretty fair for the parties in question to bring up concerns and obvious stupidity on the part of the leadership. Especially if it the decision obviously sucks for a large part of the playerbase.

There is a big difference between how the theme plays out and what is logical and works in gameplay, we've got to start seperating the two and the difficulty of doing that is apparent in this discussion.

this comes back to what i said before that there just isnt enough PC's to fill out some necessary positions that a freehold needs hence why i feel more NPC and Staff support is needed. NPC the Militia that the monarch can call upon controlled by NPC's or have a militia commander with that ability so the monarch can send the commander out and any pc' who have combat experience can mingle in the mix. That will always be a problem for mushes is the people. We cant have a fully functional freehold with just PC's we will always have these problems.

Polly wrote:

Oh contraire.

There is a big difference between how the theme plays out and what is logical and works in gameplay, we've got to start seperating the two and the difficulty of doing that is apparent in this discussion.

This is very nicely summarised. Part of this might be assisted by a bit of OOC back and forthing - to get some things to work logically and fairly out of character, we might need a bit of flexibility. In any case, in my experience being in a leadership role in games can often be a bit stressful OOC. No one wants to be disliked OOCly, they want folks to have fun.

In all likelyhood, if we have a staff or PC monarch, they're going to want some feedback on how things should go just so they don't feel too overworked. They're going to want OOC transparency so that if something goes down they don't have to spend ages soothing ruffled player feathers. IC it doesn't really matter how it looks as long as it's justifiable in game, but OOC feedback is a good thing, IMO.

Polly wrote:

Oh contraire.

There is a big difference between how the theme plays out and what is logical and works in gameplay, we've got to start seperating the two and the difficulty of doing that is apparent in this discussion.

+1

This is a bit less a neat list and more a ramble. So do excuse my long windedness.

Now, when I think of the Freehold, I think it should serve a few very specific purposes ICly and OOCly. First off, IC it is a means to protect one another from the threats out there. But more than that, it should also be a focus point for advancing local Lost. If it's role is just protection and management, it becomes a passive, reactive entity. It needs to be active and it needs to be positive. It needs an agenda for the local Lost and for the city and it's surroundings. Just what that ends is depends on the ones at the head of it. Part of that activity should be getting new folk sorted.

An active Freehold(imo) should have feelers out for new arrivals. Both from the hedge and coming into the city in general. Not just to greet new Lost and visitors, but to watch for Gentry and Loyalists. It wouldn't be hard to have the advance guard/welcoming committee know about the new folks and schedule RP to meet with them early once they're approved. If the Freehold isn't watching out for threats and new recruits, then it's being very weak in my opinion. And perhaps isn't as safe as it could be. Of course, this can be a non-RPed thing if schedules don't permit. But going IC, I wasn't given any indication that the Freehold would be contacting me and laying down any information per se. There is a page for the Freehold, but no mention of how it deals with newcomers. And no IC indication yet that they police this, their territory, in any obvious way.

So what is to stop a loyalist agent from slipping into the area to mix, mingle and prepare mischief? At this point not very much. I also have heard of all Freeholders getting a token to show they are of the Freehold, but I've not noticed this yet. Having some manner of marker or the like to know who is and is not a part of the Freehold is another key. It should be something that isn't hard to pick out, but is hard to counterfeit.

That's one of the big things about the Freehold and membership in it. It should be illustrated that if you're in the Freehold, it means you can relax at least a bit around other members of the Freehold. Of course, to do that you have to know who is and isn't in the Freehold, otherwise it's back to a guessing game. Not to mention a clear indicator(like a hedgespun badge or bit of clothing) would set Freeholders apart from others so that new folk may be more likely to ask what the difference is.


When it comes to positions of power, I think that it might be best to keep the top level(crown) in staff hands if they use it to motivate the general direction of the Freehold as a whole. Not in terms of guiding everything, but through general course correction. Leave the more direct and hands on positions for PCs, where they put color on the canvas of the game. It's rare in an RPG that you let PCs be kings and queens, unless the game is built for that. But as strong, influential people? Oh yes.

And there should be some mechanic that gives PCs a bit of choice in who takes what position. Why? Foremost, it gives those who want to be in positions of power more impetus to make a name for themselves amongst other PCs. When anyone can effect your position, it prompts you to be less cliquish because if you isolate yourself, you may end up being booted out. It also promotes being active and successful. Or so I reason. Those who can't be active shouldn't be in positions of power.

I do agree that NPCs need to be outlined. I don't think there will ever be enough PCs here for a f ill, all PC militia. Since a proper militia should have(depending on the number of Lost supposedly in the city) dozens to hundreds of members. What needs to be decided are what clear lines of division there are for positions of power and cement those positions. Then, when there are PCs to fill them, put them in. If there aren't any, it can be NPCed for a time until a suitable candidate is chosen.

For now that's where my rambling is on what I think. THanks for reading.

Alexander wrote:

Actually I was asking for the exact opposite. A monarch who rules. Who has the power (IC and OOC) to dictate laws, mette out punishment, that sort of stuff. Someone who, for a season, /is/ the law.

So what you're wanting is to get rid of the Council entirely? Because the monarchs DO have that power. Some have chosen not to exercise it in that fashion, but some have. It has been up to the individual choice of the monarch as to how much or how little authority they ascribe to the Council.

NotOtter wrote:

Alexander wrote:

Actually I was asking for the exact opposite. A monarch who rules. Who has the power (IC and OOC) to dictate laws, mette out punishment, that sort of stuff. Someone who, for a season, /is/ the law.

So what you're wanting is to get rid of the Council entirely? Because the monarchs DO have that power. Some have chosen not to exercise it in that fashion, but some have. It has been up to the individual choice of the monarch as to how much or how little authority they ascribe to the Council.

Maybe parts of it is confusion as to the role of the council? I'm still not sure what their role is, or what their authority is. If this is established clearly at each change of season, both for the council-members themselves and for all Freehold members, it'd probably help. I think the wiki only mentions them as being 'an advisory council'.

Mind, from what I gather, part of the ongoing +jobs and discussions is to decide their role. Right?

No, that's not what I said. Here's how I see it.

The monarch is like the president, except the council can't overturn their ruling with a 2/3rds majority vote. We, the people of each season/lack of season, elect those to represent us because, well, having 60-ish people in a single room would be nothing but chaos. We pick the ones to speak for us.

The Monarch, however, decides upon the things. The council doesn't vote on issues; they're the ones that takes their people's words to the crown.

If this is not the intent, please let me know, because I was under the impression that's what it was supposed to be.

Brand wrote:

NotOtter wrote:

Alexander wrote:

Actually I was asking for the exact opposite. A monarch who rules. Who has the power (IC and OOC) to dictate laws, mette out punishment, that sort of stuff. Someone who, for a season, /is/ the law.

So what you're wanting is to get rid of the Council entirely? Because the monarchs DO have that power. Some have chosen not to exercise it in that fashion, but some have. It has been up to the individual choice of the monarch as to how much or how little authority they ascribe to the Council.

Maybe parts of it is confusion as to the role of the council? I'm still not sure what their role is, or what their authority is. If this is established clearly at each change of season, both for the council-members themselves and for all Freehold members, it'd probably help. I think the wiki only mentions them as being 'an advisory council'.

Mind, from what I gather, part of the ongoing +jobs and discussions is to decide their role. Right?

Th council has no real power to be honest but good king must have the support of the courts to rule properly. The council are moreso your courts reps being the voice and min of your court to the king. Most monarchs even if crowned can not rule alone and need the support of their peers to rule effectily, this is where he council comes in. Truthfully if a monarch of a season did not want a council he or she does not need one. Its souly a political aspect of the game.

Alister wrote:

Brand wrote:

NotOtter wrote:

Alexander wrote:

Actually I was asking for the exact opposite. A monarch who rules. Who has the power (IC and OOC) to dictate laws, mette out punishment, that sort of stuff. Someone who, for a season, /is/ the law.

So what you're wanting is to get rid of the Council entirely? Because the monarchs DO have that power. Some have chosen not to exercise it in that fashion, but some have. It has been up to the individual choice of the monarch as to how much or how little authority they ascribe to the Council.

Maybe parts of it is confusion as to the role of the council? I'm still not sure what their role is, or what their authority is. If this is established clearly at each change of season, both for the council-members themselves and for all Freehold members, it'd probably help. I think the wiki only mentions them as being 'an advisory council'.

Mind, from what I gather, part of the ongoing +jobs and discussions is to decide their role. Right?

Th council has no real power to be honest but good king must have the support of the courts to rule properly. The council are moreso your courts reps being the voice and min of your court to the king. Most monarchs even if crowned can not rule alone and need the support of their peers to rule effectily, this is where he council comes in. Truthfully if a monarch of a season did not want a council he or she does not need one. Its souly a political aspect of the game.

More or less what Alister said, with some revision: the Council only has the power that Monarch permits it. Some Monarchs opt to decree based on Council vote. Others might ask for a vote simply to vet an opinion and make their own decision (Olivia did this.) The Council also tends to be looked at as the leaders of their respective Courts, so there's potential for power there as well, but only at the Seasonal Court level rather than broadly throughout the freehold.

I like having councilors because i believe it helps promote Court Roleplay. I always believe with minor matters each court should be able to handle them within their own courts until a matter affects the freehold itself and when the monarch wants something done that better fits the confines of another court he knows who he can give tasks to.

Meant to post here earlier, but we've been moving this last week.

I have no problem with the concept of freeholds in general, nor do I find the current seasonal freehold pledge terribly limiting. If it can be worded in a way that makes folks more comfortable then go for it, but pledges are how fae negotiate. If you don't take it, don't act surprised if those who did don't find you trustworthy.

I haven't had a chance to really dive into freehold matters but it occurs to me that if the freehold feels stifling it's because of pointless paperwork, not a pledge. Freeholds are meant to act as communities, not bureaucracies. The Wyrd binds folks to their word, which is to act together in the best collective interest. There is nothing that says "councilors" or "clerks" or anything with a title beyond "crown wearer" is in that collective interest. Those are things human beings gravitate to because they fulfill our desire to be part of the machine by gumming up the works. Our PCs don't require such things.

If the current structure is turning folks off, scratch it. Only the pledge, the crown (to resolve disputes, mostly), a town crier/herald and a militia (for matters involving the Gentry alone) are needed for a functional freehold.

Beyond that, the Crown asks the advice of any given Court in situations where they'd have the natural advantage, i.e. Summer for open war, Winter for secrecy, etc. Keep the frameworks we so covet within the Courts themselves. Mantle could mean so much more than 'dig mah aura' and Contract dice bonuses.

Just another two cents in the bank and hey, dig mah aura.

-Fell's player