To Protectorate or Not Protectorate!

The werewolf sphere right now is fractioned into groups and most people are not doing things, nor working together. While this is on a level quite thematic for Werewolf: the Forsaken it does not make for a very fun environment to RP in. Packless wolves have mostly no source of RP, and most of the packs do not seem to be generating RP for themselves either. (So +events tend to get swarmed by packed wolves, further pushing packless/new wolves out.)

I think we should give considerable thought to whether or not forming a protectorate is right for Darkwater as a game. I realize that Protectorates have IC reasons per the game books, but frankly having an overarching quasi-governmental thing tends to draw people together more than free-state anarchy.

I think it'd be very cool as long as none of the positions are filled by NPCs.

I vote no, but not for the reason listed. There'd be too much retconning needed to go from the packs to a protectorate.

People wouldn't be able to get along, and you'd have people staying out of it, and it'd turn into the same issues that the Freehold have.

I don't think it would require any retconning at all. If we develop one ICly, there's no need to undo anything.

Making all the wolves under one banner seems more oWoD Werewolf than new. But I'm still learning the wolf system here and thought the pack structure was a big important part of it being different from the old stuff with the single sept in a city.

I'm still pretty new, but from my understanding without remembering the exact IC date that the packs started coming in, but even the established ones are new. How would going forward, packs going this isn't working, or we just got eaten by a <blank> be bad? It's progression, not regression.

As for people not getting along, that's a fact of life, and even within packs someone might not get along. If Bob doesn't like Suzie, they can avoid each other, or rp it out. Conflict, left IC, can be enjoyable in some situations.

I think it's a good idea, because it's steps forward, not back, and it's hard to get rp in the werewolf sphere. You can sit in the Tur's or cafes, and ask on channel, but the frequency in which you get rp is low, really low.

A protectorate would not be "one banner" (nor would it need to be retconned in). The different packs would make up the protectorate. Likely with a quasi-council of the different alphas. (Those that decided to join in, of course.)

It would be formed IC, not retconned out. Packs would still be around and play a vital role in the game.

Cobalt wrote:

A protectorate would not be "one banner" (nor would it need to be retconned in). The different packs would make up the protectorate. Likely with a quasi-council of the different alphas. (Those that decided to join in, of course.)

Freehold, with a Council elected by each court season. It's looking /exactly/ like that to me. Instead of four seasons + those without courts, you'd have packs plus those not packed.

That not withstanding, I don't think this would honestly change all that much in game. Those who sign up for events are the ones who are going to sign up for events. You will still get the same 6 or so people who are active. Information spreading will still be an issue. People will still keep stuff to their own packs.

Now, a monthly meeting of the alphas in a Tur (we have 3 now) would be fine. Just seems like this isn't going to be overly useful in this MU setting.

Quote :

Those who sign up for events are the ones who are going to sign up for events. You will still get the same 6 or so people who are active. Information spreading will still be an issue. People will still keep stuff to their own packs.

Something about this really bugs me. But I don't have enough coffee in me to say why yet. I'm going to think on it and elaborate later. When I'm maybe a bit more awake.

I think it would be super to have an over-arching organization between packs.

If I were to set up an +event to host a Potlatch, to discuss the idea IC, would people be amenable to this? The poll seems overwhelmingly in favor of the idea, and I figure we can all take it IC.

I'm probably missing the point here, but if packs aren't making roleplay for themselves... how is this anyone else's responsibility? Like... why did they form a pack in the first place, if not to play with eachother? I'm really not getting it.

There are always going to be people who never leave the OOC room yet whinge they can't find roleplay. I don't think I've been here two weeks yet and I've already seen a ton of it. It's not that there isn't roleplay to be found; it's that they want it placed gift-wrapped in their lap without having to lift a finger for it.

I'm new to nwod werewolf in general, and don't have the book where Protectorates are detailed, but as they've been explained to me, /as long as membership in them is not mandatory/, they sound like a great idea.

A reason for the myriad packs to have some common ground / some singular meeting point is fantastic. A construction that keeps new packs from claiming territory in the forest/city/wherever because they're not part of it is NOT.

Nobody is laying responsibility on anybody else.

We are simply discussing a way to foster RP, together. It's a cooperative effort. People who do not wish to participate are not obligated to participate.

I've not had any Wolf PCs yet, but I have been considering it. So I'll weigh in.

Thom, I don't think the issue is no RP within packs. I think what Cobalt is concerned with is little RP between them. Though I would assume that, by its very nature Werewolf RP is a bit cliquish since there is that whole pack dynamic which is a part of it. And at a glance to the census, each is relatively small. And by its very nature, packs would tend to exclude the packless from anything important, plot-wise.

Now, I don't know the state of Wolf RP on the ground, since I haven't been in it, save brushing up against one or two in random scenes. The goal, I think, is to give wolves a bit more reason to come together in RP beyond pack work. To have events where there is more mingling between packs. With the Protectorate being a structure to lean towards that. Given the big nasty bird, that might provide an impetus to team up a bit. Especially if nasty bird hassled the wolves a bit.

I don't know if that would help from a personal stance, but in general it is usually one idea of many. Some people will just hang out waiting for RP. Or are too bogged down with RL to leap in as often as some of we. But it's worth considering in some way, shape or form if packs are being a bit too distant when it comes to plots and other such things. Not just casual RP.

And if I'm misrepresenting what I think Cobalt is aiming at, I can be corrected of course.

Yeah, the balancing act is making it something that's available for the people who want it, and doesn't hinder those who don't.

Thom may well chip in as a Do-er Of Odd Jobs, but I'd lay money on my pack-to-be having zero time/interest in it. They've got way too much RL on their plate and simply don't have time to get massively invested in the grid at large. We came here to make a pack and tell stories to each other, and it'll be a sadness if that goes up in smoke. (Not that I think it's going to, from the sounds of it.)

As a player, I'm all for it. The more opportunities/ability to play together, the better.

I voted 'no' for this, because I do think it's against the theme of the game, but that's only a very small reason for it.

I also don't see how this is going to foster RP if the packs aren't RPing together already. Werewolf already has a dynamic and complex way to keep the packs working together, while keeping them as small, solid units; we all chase down rogue spirits, renegade hosts, find and route the Urged, etc, which keeps us remembering that, ultimately, we're all children of Father Wolf.

But at the same time, each pack claims a territory for itself that it can maintain and defend. Border skirmishes are bound to happen, and if a spirit happens to cross a borderline, rare is the werewolf that isn't going to go after it if the other pack isn't already waiting there to deter it from entering.

This is how the packs should be working together. Through plots designed to foster RP between them. I know, I'm guilty of not running a lot of these lately, and that only adds to the problem, but having random +events that people can sign up for instead of tailored plots for packs (which in turn you can easily cross over to another pack, and get them interacting because of it, for good or ill) is the real solution to the problem, because creating some sort of werewolf freehold just means that the alphas get together and talk about... what? Exactly what they already know?

So, no. I don't think it's a good idea. I think that a better solution is to simply have this done through the plots that happen. Have a little birdie spirit (bird spirits are great for gossip) tell Alpha A that Pack B's not holding their own in their territory, and in order to favor goodwill with this spirit, they should pick up their slack. then, tell Alpha B that pack A has been nosing around on their border/in their territory. Watch the fireworks ensue, or the friendship begin as you will.

The majority of the sphere-voters, appear, not to agree with you, Crow. Or perhaps they are simply willing to discuss it a little more in detail (in person) than to simply write it off because of preconceived notions of what it will be. Discussion will be had tomorrow, I'll post it to the log.

And here I thought that the point of the discussion was to try to state our given point of view and the reasons why we felt like that, instead of just jumping on board with whatever came along because someone brought it up, that way there's as many facts from as many different angles as possible, so that people can make an informed, all-around decision.

Huh.

Personal attacks, no matter how oblique, are not acceptable by anyone, to anyone. If anyone feels attacked on the forums, you may contact Tributary or I on the game. Otherwise please keep all of it off the forums.

That being my mod voice. That rather does scratch the throat.